AlessandraZoe

I love the term, "mudlark." Sad but true history. I fell in love with the movie "The Mudlark" (1950) somewhere on a TCM journey eons ago. Irene Dunne and Alec Guinness, what's not to like? So right now I'm following your recs, Morgana, immediately.

See what you started, Vickiebypass? It's a total black hole! Keep it up.

vickiebypass

AZ and morgana - thanks for the video/link! I know what I'll spend Thanksgiving doing! (As you say, once I go down the rabbit hole of the internet, hours can go by...)

Bilboburgler - inquiring minds like me want to know about the logistics of most things. When I worked, I loved planning things - whether events, process implementations, projects, etc. and got great pleasure in anticipating any eventuality and coming up with a plan to prevent or resolve it. That's why I'm fascinated by behind the scenes tours or knowing the "how" behind something. So thank you for the info about the museum art transfer industry; that's something I would have been good at! And there are entire departments devoted to the myriad aspects of it... Always something to ponder

vickiebypass

Day 7, Fri, November 15: sunny and 48
This day was out of the ordinary since I went to a cycling show 🚴🏻‍♂️ and a museum.

The museum was interesting because it is so politically correct it initially made me nuts. Formerly known as The Geffrye Museum, it is made up of 18th century almshouses in Hoxton. It was renamed the Museum of the Home in 2019 with a mission ”to reveal and rethink the ways we live, in order to live better together.” Their intention is good and after a long discussion with a museum employee I came around to an understanding of their approach but I still feel their heavy-handed approach needs tweaking since they’re missing opportunities to educate patrons. The museum depicts rooms from houses over the centuries and exhibits various objects used in homes throughout the ages.

When I arrived, there was a talk about to start on “the history of colonial objects” and they said it would cover mahogany, tea, etc. so that sounded very interesting to me. I joined seven senior British ladies from a local National Trust group for the talk; I talked to a few of them afterwards and several of them were furious about it. Out of a 30 minute presentation, 2/3 of it focused on slavery, exploitation, and how bad the British were. I would have preferred to hear about how mahogany was harvested, how it became such a valuable commodity and the same for tea, sugar cane, etc. What seem to really bother the British ladies is that the woman giving the talk was not a native British person and from their perspective she was finding fault for things that happened long ago. I know these are sensitive areas and I can’t speak to the British identity/perspective, but personally I felt it was a very heavy handed lecture and not educational. (Although I did learn that mahogany was cut down in Jamaica and used for ballast in trading ships.)

Then I went through the museum’s main floor and it frustrated me because they had very well done recreations of rooms in different types of housing and apartments in the 20th century, but instead of having a little descriptive tags about the objects in each room, they had created a story around each room. Along the lines of “Rachel is a 12 year old Jewish girl who helps her mother in the house. She uses the sewing machine placed in front of the window to keep an eye on her younger brothers and sisters. They have a special dinner Friday nights…. Blah blah, blah blah blah.” Each of the rooms was the same thing - short on facts and long on stories and making it relatable to the community. 😡. The rooms were designed so that you can walk into and around them – no more ropes keeping you away from the exhibits.

Then I went to the section downstairs, which was a series of rooms presented thematically where they showed objects on a same theme (play, relaxing, cleaning) from different eras and these had descriptions so they were more like a traditional museum. I chatted with a museum employee and she explained that the rooms upstairs that didn’t include any details have been created in conjunction with local community groups, and the goal is to make the museum more accessible and easy to understand for all ages, ethnicities and educational backgrounds. In thinking about that, I understand the museum’s perspective and dilemma, although I think there’s a better middle ground between stories with no facts at all and placards full of data. It seems that the challenge for museums is education versus entertainment and ensuring that they are relevant to all (and younger) patrons. In the same way that libraries have evolved from places where you always had to be quiet, I think museums are also evolving. So my mind was opened (albeit grudgingly) which is always a good thing.

Side note: one of the upstairs room was a bathroom from the 50’s and I saw a contraption on the wall that I figured was probably a gas meter for hot water (or heat). I’ve read about putting shillings in the meter for years and never knew what one looked like, so I wished there was a display tag or something telling me what it was!! Later I did ask the museum employee I was chatting with and she confirmed that it was a gas meter…. I reiterated my point that a bit of facts & historical information would have been useful. Maybe they could pick the top 5 most significant items in a display and explain those? I suggested it and she nodded.

Another side note: in all the London museums I visited, I noticed that (1) exhibits reflect diversity of subjects and artists and (2) some of the description tags include a sentence referencing “wealth derived from slave trade” or “in this era, women did not have the rights they do now”, etc. It’s a complicated issue but I agree with both of those changes; I think museums should be broad based and present facts objectively. While people can argue on all sides, I saw these changes as steps in a good direction which did not impact my ability to learn and enjoy the actual exhibits (except at the Museum of the Home...)

Now for a total change – off to Shoreditch and Rouleur Live, a 3 day cycling show! For the past five years or so, I’ve been watching all of the big professional bike races on TV - the Tour de France, the Giro d’italia, the Volta España plus whatever smaller races are televised. I first started watching because the Tour de France is like a travelogue where they show so much scenery and aerial shots, same with the Italy and Spain races. Through watching I became interested in the sport itself (not to do it myself, heaven forbid!). I listen to a couple of cycling podcasts at the gym and one of them mentioned that they would be at a cycling show in London blah blah blah and since I’ll be here and it’s only about $30 for the day I bought a ticket. There’s a daily line up of discussions and panels with various world and national champions; lots of bike vendors and other cycling related vendors (water bottles, apps to track your progress, clothing… I don’t know). It’s definitely something new for me and sounded like a nice break from museums and walking around so what the heck? And it’s in another trendy part of London, so I’ll get to check that out also.

From Hoxton station, I took the Overland to Shoreditch High Street and headed toward to Truman Brewery (the bike show location). Interesting area which is definitely in the process of being gentrified but is not there yet; lots of graffiti, boarded up windows and local businesses (not artisan anything). I had considered apartments in this area but glad I decided against them since it’s a little too gritty for me. All of a sudden, I was on Brick Lane – bang, back into tourist land! It was a Friday early afternoon and crowds of young (under 30? 35?) were all over Brick Lane. There are food markets and shopping opps that drew them in😁

The bike show was interesting; I enjoyed the speakers most of all and listened to three presentations. It’s fun to actually see people in real life who you’ve seen on TV and think of as stars (in the cycling world, they are stars because several of them were world champions). There had to be 70 or so vendors selling all kinds of technical and fancy bikes and gear, some of which I knew what it was and others no clue. I picked up a few tote bags and a water bottle which one of the cycling stars (Luke Rowe) signed. I’m sure there were a lot of other pro cyclists there, but almost everyone was a slim, fit, 40-60 year old man with short gray hair and stubble so I wouldn’t have known if one was an ex-cyclist or not. The current cyclists were in the VIP lounge😁.

It was fun and a nice break from churches and huge museums. Took overland home to Highbury & Islington stop and walked home in dusk (love looking into windows!)

Tomorrow: Whitechapel to Wapping Walking Tour

janisj

I'll have to go back and read the entirety of your descriptions of the "Museum of the Home" -- because I'll probably not visit it again. The 'Geffrye' used to be one of my very favorite museums in London (I'd been there 4 or 5 times and it used to be wonderful over the Christmas holidays and in the spring with the lovely gardens) but articles I read in the national press at the time it was closed for 'reimagining' it felt they were going to ruin things. It used to display honest presentations of domestic rooms over the centuries - no heavy handed preaching.

bilboburgler

Yes this whole issue can be tough. Coming from a nation that basically ravaged a lot of the planet (and was successful at it) does mean we really did hurt a lot of people (I have a long list). Other groups and countries might have tried but were less successful.

Our UK education at school (I'm 64) never covered this so these ladies may have been my generation and so some of this really is new or perhaps a new perspective for them. Hearing your propaganda from your youth being rubbished is difficult for anyone.

What sometimes is missed is that as a nation we not only tried to change we have, in many ways succeeded, but it has been a messy change (as such things are).

vickiebypass

bilboburgler - very well said. As you surmised, I would guess that the ladies were around 70 years of age, so I suspect that their reaction was very different from what people 30 or 40 years younger would have felt. One of them commented to me afterward that what annoyed her the most is that very little recognition is made of the many British people who supported the abolition of the slave trade, starting in the late 18th century. Since this group of ladies had been on a trip to Stoke-on-Trent, they knew about Josiah Wedgwood and his fervent support of the abolitionist movement, including producing an anti-slavery medallion. They mentioned this during the lecture, saying they weren't dismissing Britain's role in the slave trade but that many people were against it which the museum lecturer agreed with but they felt she swept it away to continue her script. I felt the one-sided, heavy handed approach was not fully accurate and I don't believe a museum which receives govt funding/public support should promote a single view, particularly of a contentious subject.

janisj - Like you, I had visited The Geffyre several times in years past and this current incarnation is entirely different. Out of curiosity, I just scanned the most recent museum reviews on Google and TA - many of the TA reviews note the "woke-ism, painfully stereotypical and box ticking" and historical inaccuracies; the Google reviews are more positive. Here's some additional information but you'll probably want to visit it again to see your own reaction to it.

• the almshouses are generally used for administrative purposes now although they do offer a tour once a week (or a month) of the almshouses closer to the street which I believe are not in use.
• As it was a cool day, I just walked quickly through the gardens but they looked in good shape/well maintained and I can imagine would be delightful in spring & summer
• the museum entrance is now a circular area, very open, with a children's play area in front of the reception desk and gift shop
• the lower level is new and has an area for exhibitions in addition to a series of rooms presented thematically where they showed objects on a same theme (play, relaxing, cleaning). Two examples: Cleaning contained a rug beater, a carpet sweeper, an old Hoover and a new Dyson; each item was named, dated and described. I forget everything that Play contained but I know there were cards and an old Atari (or some station with video games) that was still working and as I walked up and back through these rooms, each time someone was playing the video game. These displays also had museum commentaries about the theme and often photos or documents from the past reflecting the theme. The Cleaning room stuck in my mind but I don't remember the details of the other rooms except that I enjoyed them and, again the comparison of a theme through the ages was an interesting way to see history - I feel like there was a Relaxing section with various chairs including a recliner?
• The Period rooms are all on the main level and although the objects in the rooms depict an era well, there's minimal information about those objects.

I'm all for providing a well rounded learning experience but I need the facts! As bilboburgler notes, this may be a generational issue which will be moot in 30 years or so.

vickiebypass

Day 8, Sat, November 16: grey and upper 40’s
Took a great walking tour today with a company called Open City - Whitechapel to Wapping. It was led by Martin, an architect/town planner, who was very knowledgeable. Wapping is an area that I’ve never been to and is of historical interest since it’s docklands AND many old buildings are still there. The tour began in Aldgate and Shadwell before ending near Wapping Station. We learned about Toynbee Hall; Whitechapel Art Gallery and Library; the Proof House; the Leman Street Dispensary; Wilton’s Music Hall; the Cable Street Mural; London’s oldest Indian restaurant; Hawksmoor’s St George in the East church (which wasn't open); Tobacco Dock; and other old docks, warehouses and streets. Wapping was very atmospheric - each time we came around the corner or looked down a street, there was an old building or two. In Whitechapel, there was a large variety of architectural styles, early 19th century mid and flamboyant Victorian brick with finials, turrets and various decor. Also 1920s-30s buildings as well as later and current. The great thing about this tour was that we walked a lot, about 3 miles, which I like. So many tours involve minimal walking and an awful lot of standing around, which hurts my back and knees. This was a lot of walking and the appropriate amount of stopping, explaining and moving along. There were about 12 people on the tour; I was the only American.

Seems like a lot of the old warehouses have been converted to flats, especially those on or close to the Thames. There were a lot of parks and green areas but didn’t not many shops except real estate agencies (or else we weren’t walking near them). The guide said one of the great things about Wapping is that it’s not so easy to get to via public transportation, so it has retained a lot of its character and history.

After the tour, I decided to have lunch in a pub that we walked past and I had read about, Town of Ramsgate. Interesting to me that it didn’t open until noon but by 12:15, it was quite full with two groups of six or so people and some duos… and me. Too cold to sit outside for their river view. Very small, narrow and long front to back; looked old and quaint. I decided to go very English and have a steak and ale pie plus a local cider. The cider was great – I’m so glad I discovered it all those years ago on Cunard ships 😜. I got a kick out of listening to all the discussions around me and people watching. The pie was full of steak with a very good crust and very filling; I only had a few chips, but they were crispy; of the roasted vegetables, I enjoyed the roasted carrots, but left the green stuff. The plate came with its own cup of juice, which I tasted and I think it was a beef & ale stock; not sure what the point of it was – maybe you pour it over your chips and veggies? The pie was moist and had its own gravy inside so I don’t get why you would drown a crispy crust with jus. Spent about 90 mins there. Watched groups come & go which surprised me fairly quickly since an hour doesn’t seem like enough time to hang out with friends in a pub; I did hear one large group discussing how to get to the next pub so I think they were doing their own version of a pub crawl which sounded like a fun way to pass a grey Saturday afternoon with friends. There were also a number of senior couples there which I think is a nice thing – instead of sitting home watching TV and not talking to each other, they go out to a pub and they were chatting with each other (I looked and listened😁). Although I’d have to drink something else because those ciders would put me to sleep and make me fat. I had planned on walking around more in Wapping but was full of pie & cider so decided to just go back to the apartment and have a lazy afternoon!

Side note: about 8 years ago, I was on a British Isles cruise which stopped in Newcastle for the day. As always, I researched beforehand and had a great day in Newcastle; in fact, I liked it so much that I came back the next year for a week as a prelude to driving through the Borders. I now particularly enjoy visiting old industrial cities; quite often, the old buildings still exist and you can get a flavor of the Victorian era. For me, Wapping was like this – the warehouses are still there, the narrow lanes, the wrought iron fences, glimpses of the Thames, etc. Hoxton and Shoreditch too.

Tomorrow: another walking tour about KGB spies in Hampstead. And a Museum

janisj

Thanks for the further explanation -- still may not visit again but at least I'll give it a thought.

I once did a solo 'self guided' pub crawl from Town of Ramsgate to the Prospect of Whitby to the The Grapes (Ian McKellen's pub). About a mile and a half total so perfectly spaced. DLR to Wapping then #15 bus back into central London.

The #15 is a cultural journey - From a TR several years ago: "I rode the 15 for nearly 45 minutes and it was amazing how the riders changed as we wended our way west. When I got on almost all the passengers were muslim. Mainly women completely covered. Then several blocks west they started getting off and most new comers were Afro/Caribbean. Then slowly the bus became almost totally South Asian. It was really fascinating - we went through most of the British Empire in a few miles. By the time the bus got to Tower Hill it was a complete mixed melting pot . . . ."

JohnEW2912

vickiebypass - the jug of "jus" would be gravy, intended for you to add to your plate - primarily on the pie but plenty would put it on chips as well. I like to add a little but plenty of others, including my wife and especially my daughter-in-law would have the lot all over. Another example of different cultures despite seeming similar - the reverse of pretzels, which I can't abide.

vickiebypass

JohnEW2912 - thanks for explaining! I'm not a sauce fan - whether for meat or desserts, so a little jus on the vegs was sufficient for me. Good to know though! (Laughed about pretzels since I haven't found them anywhere in the world except the US, so it must be an American thing

nyse

And here I thought America got them from Germany

AlessandraZoe

I now am reporting everything from your trip report to my husband, and he's enjoying all your various topics with commentary. He roared at your comment about the senior citizens you observed in pubs who use that location as their socialization, saying, "Well that's pretty much us."

But on a more serious note, he and I had a very intense discussion about the slavery issue. We had noticed on our recent return trips to Ireland and England a huge recognition now of "slavery wealth" in the history exhibits we've been seeing in Westport, Ireland; Cork, Ireland; and Liverpool, England (an actual slavery museum). Our Westport "stately home" visit showed how the social consciousness of these wealthy families evolved. Because my background is mainly in literature, I've revisited the Brontes, big Abolitionists with not as much rebellion in the writing as I would have expected, and Jane Austen, who early on was sending subtle darts (as always!) at the source of all that wealth in the stately homes.

Speaking of Liverpool--we decided if you have not been, you must go!!!! We barely scratched the surface there. We only went with the intention of indulging in Beatles history for a few days and came away longing for more as I posted in the first entries of our trip report for that June. My husband said, "She just HAS to go there. She just has to. And then we'll know where we'll have to go when we return."

And wow, who would ever have thought about pretzels in the USA compared to the rest of the world? What a keen observation. We just had never thought about the absence of pretzels compared to the ubiquity of crisps in UK/Ireland pubs. As people born in the Northeast USA with huge Germanic populations, soft or hard pretzels with a mustard dip ruled forever in bars until tortilla chips and salsa started to rule. I checked yesterday in my Southeast USA grocery market. There's a huge aisle dedicated to totally non-nutritious food. Yep, tortilla variations and chip variations mainly rule now, but there's still a wide section here devoted to pretzels of all sorts and sizes.

vickiebypass

AZ - I have been to Liverpool twice but only as a port on British Isles cruises so I've spent two days in total; it's on my list to visit for a longer stay, along with Manchester and maybe Birmingham. (Industrial Victorian cities!). The first time in Liverpool was pre-COVID and I focused on the redeveloped waterfront area, wending in and out of buildings & public areas. I was intrigued by the dazzle ship, a new recreation showing the painting technique used to camouflage ships during WWI. The contrasting stripes and curves create an optical illusion that break up a ship’s shape and obscure its movement in the water, making it difficult for enemy submarines to identify and destroy. This one was painted in bright lime green, orange, red & black stripes and certainly stood out in the dock. I also took the ferry across the Mersey because you have to!!! There was an equal mix of locals and tourists and they play the Gerry & the Pacemakers version of the song. I also took a Beatles bus tour which touched the surface but was interesting. I also went to either the Walker Gallery or World Museum because they had an exhibit of the Terra Cotta warriors that I've never seen in real life....unfortunately, they only had one whereas I was hoping to see a battalion!

My 2nd visit to Liverpool was in August 2023 and I went to Speke Hall, a National Trust Tudor home with Arts & Crafts style. The first interesting thing was that since the ship arrived in Liverpool at about 9:00 am on a Saturday, I was able to see our arrival and the scenery (usually ships arrive in a port at the crack of dawn). I spotted, high on a hill, what was clearly a stadium and in fact was Anfield, home of Liverpool Football Club. Large, architectural with a swoopy roof. Then, next to it, I spotted a long, low blue-ish building that looked exactly like an Ikea....in fact, it was Goodison Park, the stadium of the "other" Liverpool team, Everton. Wow - talk about a contrast in size and style! But then my eye was caught by a building site right along the river which looked like a stadium and I realized is Everton's brand new stadium. The structure was nearly complete and it looked world class - what a great riverside location on Bramley-Moore dock.

The very helpful Liverpool tourist folks explained how to take a train from Liverpool to Speke and then a cab from the train station to the house. That all worked fine; when you arrive, you walk up the drive past the HUGE gift shop, toilets and various food spots until you reach the house. The drive passes some gardens (a kitchen garden which I always like to poke around); park area with mature trees; and a moat. Upon entering, I noticed two things: lots of kids racing around and a couple in period clothing so I followed them into the courtyard. Volunteers, they were wearing exquisite costumes with so much detail - I wanted to touch the velvet and finger the pearls but did not. I asked a question about their clothing and they answered in character; I referred to "Elizabethan" and their response included a curse and pox about her heritage. I admit I was a bit flummoxed in terms of how to converse in Tudor english and couldn't remember my history precisely enough to say the right thing! I admire the commitment to costume and character.

The house was interesting; very rambling with many rooms to visit, in addition to the description boards the docents were full of information. I hop-scotched to avoid the kids (I've noticed that many museums give kids a treasure hunt packet where they are looking for specific items; that seems to keep them focused and they move along; not sure how much history they're absorbing but you never know!). The hall was interesting due to the combination of it's Tudor architecture and areas of Arts & Crafts decor & furnishings. Even with lots of windows (mullioned thought), it was dark inside due to the dark wood. Bet there were drafts whistling through that house back in the day! As always, I enjoy the kitchen and scullery areas. The grounds were extensive and I walked around through groves, gardens and swards. I was flagging so on my out I stopped at the cafe and had something - maybe a pasty? The folks at the reception hut called me a taxi to take me to the station and we had quite a conversation about football. I mentioned the new Everton stadium (I did not refer to the old one as an Ikea) and it turns out the driver was an Everton fan; we talked all about the players, managers, etc. There was a long traffic delay due to an accident so we had long time to chat.

Once back in Liverpool, my mission was M&S but they were literally moving to a new store that day and the old store on Church Street was fairly empty of stock but i was able to buy a few things and then just wandered around the downtown area, working my way to cruise dock. Studied the liver birds, walked past - and then into and out of - Jurgen's bar and back onto the ship.

So, now that I've highjacked my own thread , I've remembered that I wanted to do the National Trust tours of John or Paul's homes. So that's on my list of things to do in Liverpool. Suggestions welcome!

vickiebypass

Day 9, Sun, November 17: Partly sunny, 50
Today is my last day in London! I’m ready to come home since I’m tired of dealing with logistics each day of how to get someplace and not talking to anybody except strangers on a bus.

I had signed up for a London Walks walking tour about KGB spies in Hampstead but out of the blue the local tube station (Angel) was closed (apparently they have to have a certain number of staff in order to operate the station), so I had to take buses, but there were all kinds of delays including me figuring out the bus system. It’s not so easy. Long story short, 75 minutes after leaving my Islington apt later I arrived at the meeting point for the tour (Belsize Park tube station) and they had left - I was 12 minutes late and I didn’t expect them to wait but I had called the leader and thought maybe he could call me back and let me know what route they were taking and I would catch up. There was another lady there in the same boat but no joy. While I was waiting around I chatted with two TfL employees who were standing outside the station in the sun; I remarked on how dry the weather had been and they said “it’s so cold though”. We agreed that the sun was nice and they said “that’s why we’re standing here!” Side note that I asked a lot of TfL employees in various stations questions and they were always friendly and knowledgeable.

Now with the day available, I decided to go to a museum that I didn’t have time for and always enjoy - the Imperial War Museum but first, a historic cathedral: St George's Cathedral, Southwark. The original cathedral building was designed by a well known Victorian architect, Augustus Pugin, and was considered the most important Catholic Church in England when it was built – 1840’s. In 1941, the Cathedral was hit by an incendiary bomb, starting a fire which destroyed the wooden roof and much else; the cathedral was rebuilt in a style that attempted to blend an Arts & Crafts/Gothic Revival style with surviving elements of the pre-war building and opened again in 1958. The two towers were not rebuilt and the church is not terribly attractive from the outside. Being a Sunday, there was a service going on so I sat quietly. Attractive stained glass and various ornamentations.

Imperial War Museum: Over the years, they’ve updated the exhibits and change the focus of the galleries; when I first went there, they had a recreation of what it was like to be in the blitz and it was dark, lights were flashing, sirens were going off, smoke was around and people were screaming. It was great, but that’s not there anymore. One of the changes I noticed is that previously the World War II and World War I galleries focused the majority of their space and story on Britain and the Allies but the galleries now include all the combatants, not in a blaming way, but very factual about the battles and telling the story/displaying uniforms of members of their military. Lots of women and non-white military and civilian stories provided, which is good.

It's extremely well laid out, with clear signage and descriptions for all exhibits. There are a lot of multi-media aspects to the displays (e.g. videos, audio, old film footage, music of the era, etc) which is a good break from just reading descriptions of items on display. I also appreciated the post-WWII gallery showing Britain after the war, as well as more recent conflicts. There's a separate gallery on the top floor highlighting everyone who has received the Victoria Cross, with their photo and description of what they did. Interesting and moving. Periodically volunteers gave brief presentations on a specific topic in a gallery (I was there on a Sunday, so those may only be offered on the weekend). I spent about an hour watching lots of old films from the British Ministry of Information about the military from 1950 and forward. The footage was interesting since it was about the Suez crisis, mandatory national service in the army, the role of aircraft carriers in the Korean War, and other odd little movies.

The Museum is free and there were a lot of families with kids from four years and up and I think it’s good that their parents bring them to the museum. There’s a sign in front of the Holocaust Galleries warning that children under 14 shouldn’t go in and I heard a young father telling his six-year-old son that they should skip one of the battle videos because “it’s sad”. I think the museum provides an educational experience that seems pretty balanced and isn’t frightening.

Their cafe is large and offers hot dishes, sandwiches/soup/ salads and desserts. I had a grilled cheese toastie and a scone - the toastie was good but the scone was like a hockey puck (dense)! Very helpful staff, lots of toilets, lockers and lifts.

I spent about four hours there and tubed back to the apartment. I packed my suitcase and knapsack, which weighs a ton because it’s full of shortbread cookies, chocolate bars and books. 🤣🤣

This was a great trip (both the Paris and London pieces). While I make myself nuts researching and planning to the nth degree before the trip, when I get there I'm always happy to have a loose plan for each day and know that I'm maximizing my time...even if that includes a lot of aimless wandering and people watching. I like knowing that I've mastered a city's transportation system, seen some little known gems and absorbed new things. As Sam Johnson said "When a man is tired of London, he is tired of life" and I always, always find different and rewarding things to do in London.
Thank you all for following along and responding enthusiastically! That is the great thing about Fodors (and on this Thanksgiving day, something to be thankful for.)

vickiebypass

janjisj - I forgot to thank you for your Wapping pub walk and bus #15 info. I copied and pasted it into my "Next trip to London" folder. I loved taking buses since you get a great view and your comment about the changing demographics based on the passengers makes perfect sense but not something I'd focused on. Next time!!

Morgana

Had to laugh this morning - we were in our local Marks and Sparks Foodhall (love that shop, my husband always says we must be major shareholders!) doing some shopping for the weekend.
Spotted packs of chocolate coated pretzels and thought about this thread..................wasn't tempted!

AlessandraZoe

JanisJ--Adored the Wapping walk and the Bus #15 delightful anecdote. My husband loved hearing about the journey--it's one of the reasons we enjoy public transport.
We're adding it to the immense list of what-to-do from everyone else on this thread. I've just reminded my almost-80 husband he only has a few years left and we've got to get on all of this fast.

Vickiebypass, we've ALL hijacked it. But...

You are THE EXPERT in how to travel. You have a fabulous style. As a couple or as a family of four, we've been on trips where I* did not research and plan enough and book ahead enough and on trips where I've uber-planned to the degree that everyone wanted to kill me. The secret is the fine balance and the acceptance that things can never, ever be perfect. We all know now that disaster days may end up as the very best funny memories, too. We're not taking "vacations"--we are "traveling". Huge difference.
*My husband has wisely NEVER planned travel for the two of us other than our debacle of a honeymoon, and he happily only offers his opinion when asked. Hence, we are still married.

Liverpool: You have certainly added to our return list.
As far as John and Paul's house and our taxi tour, we gained so much insight from being between the walls of where they lived. One family had a tragedy, yet its remaining family members lived in the blessed love of that missing person, and one can feel that. There's a presence.

Morgana--As traditional pretzel snackers, chocolate-covered probably isn't high on the list. Back to basics: Snyder's of Hanover (PA Dutch--the originators for the intro of pretzels in the USA) HARD pretzels. Mustard of your choice. Good beer. Add conversation. DONE!

Lexma90

Vickiebypass - Thanks so much for this trip report! I'm still working my way through the details, pulling out bits for me to use in my visit to London in 2025. Thanks so much for the details and honest and thoughtful observations.